Letters!! We Get Letters!!

Back in February I posted a story of  Mark and Todd Wathen, who were planning a Civil Union ceremony--legal in Illinois where they live--and celebration party afterwards, and met with all sorts of bigotry and homophobia in trying to find a venue for their party [see original posts HERE and HERE].

Well, imagine my surprise when i received a series of response to that February post in December, by someone called 'Anonymous'--whom I gather is a frequent responder to nearly every blog out there because I see his or her name all the time.

And he, or she, or them, I don't know which, disagreed with Mark and Todd's story and my view that such places should be avoided if they want to discriminate. So, let;'s take a look at what Anonymous said, and I'll offer up my own two cents.

So, grab a coffee, or your beverage of choice, and settle in:

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post UPDATED: Avoid The Beall Mansion and The TimberCreek Inn, They Don't Like The Gays :"I am Hispanic and I too have faced discrimination based on my Nationality but I didn't make a federal case out of it, I simply avoid those places. I understand how you feel but you must understand that not everybody is going to welcome you/me with open arms. The US is so huge and vast that there is something for everybody. You, just like the rest of us will always avoid that which we find offensive. Do not confuse avoidance based on offense with discrimination."

 Well, Anonymous, I guess if that's your viewpoint, that places have the right to discriminate for any reason, and we should all just avoid those places, let's make it easier, shall we?

Let's put back the 'For Whites Only' signs on drinking fountains.

Let's make movie theaters segregated into Whites and Coloreds. Gays and Straights. No Fags. No Hebes, No Spics. No Kikes. No Towelheads. No Wetbacks.

How fucking American does that seem to you?

If you don't mind people saying to you, 'You're Hispanic, you're not welcome here' that's an issue for you to deal with. Myself? I'll fight against those people that deny you any service because of your ethnicity, your sexual orientation, your religion, your color, your age, your gender.

Discrimination is wrong. Plain. Simple. Wrong.

"There was the case with eharmony where they were sued by gay people for not being allowed to join and yet gay people have hundreds of not thousands of sites dedicated to their lifestyle and dating. Being who I am, I am not going to join a gay dating site, just as I would not join a Jewish or Christian dating site because I am not gay, Jewish, Christian, etc., nor would I sue them to change to accomodate [sic] me."

Again, it starts with a dating site, and then it's a restaurant and a country club and a department store, and then we can create a whole new industry of signmakers to create a slew of "No fill in the blanks Allowed." That is unAmerican.

"You want to invade every aspect of our lives by force if necessary under the guise of discrimination. "Birds of a feather" and yet you refuse to let others do so. No matter how hard you try, you will not change people's minds. Especially those who are extremely religious (which I am not). You will never convince them that your lifestyle is normal so why keep trying. You would have us all walk in lockstep when in reality, it is great that our country has so much to offer for all of us. We all have choices."

Let me give you a little bit of advice. Anon. When you start using phrases like "You want to invade every aspect of our lives" you prove what a bigot is, you show your hatred and intolerance. It isn't you and me, it's us, and until you learn that we are all the same, despite differences in color, language, sexual orientation or gender, you'll always be a bigot.

"I am not a religious super freak if that is what you choose to call them but I like everyone else have the right to choose who to associate with based on my personal ethics/morals/interests, etc. but you would take that choice away from me by forcing your way into every group out there under the guise of discrimination."

I have never said you can't associate with anyone you choose, but when you run a business that caters to the public, then cater to the public. If you don't wish to cater to the LGBT community then proudly hang a sign in your window telling me,  so my gay friends and I, and my gay-friendly friends and I, will find another business to use.

But do not call yourself a public business and then deny certain members of the public access to your business. We had 'For Coloreds Only' if you heard, and it didn't work, because it wasn't right.

"You are destroying what makes this country great. The diversity and the freedom to choose without persecution. You would choose to persecute all who do not agree with your views via your lawsuits. There is a place for you just as there is a place for all of us."

You are wrong. What makes this country great is diversity, and if we allow businesses to deny their services to anyone for any reason, color, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, then we are not celebrating diversity, we are denying it.

If, as an Hispanic person, you are fine with being told you can't go in that shop, or eat at that counter, or stay at that inn, that's your right. i feel sorry for you that you think do little of yourself that you'd allow anyone to treat you so shabbily.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post UPDATED: Avoid The Beall Mansion and The TimberCreek Inn, They Don't Like The Gays "FYI, I am not a bigot. I am just a person who lives in the US like you and I appreciate the smorgasbord that is the US. I like having unencumbered choices. I appreciate the diversity and the multitude of choices available to me. I don't want to live in a country that walks in lockstep. I don't want others views forced on me. I am an individual with my own views and I love it. The US! Greatest country in the world."

First off, are you the same Anonymous? Can't tell, because you hide behind that. If you are the same, let me make it clear that people who aren't bigots never have to announce that they aren't bigots. Only bigots want to make the distinction.

Secondly, you;'re an asshat.

Thirdly, you appreciate the "smorgasbord' of America; you like 'iunencumbered choices'. And yet you believe the Beall Mansion and TimberCreek Inn have the right to deny you, or me, or anyone, access to their public business. 

Doesn't sound very unencumbered to me. Or at all like a smorgasbord.

"I wouldn't even be discussing my views if others weren't trying to force theirs on me. I respect your right to your views but I don't share them and that is okay. I will not try to force my views on you and I would appreciate it greatly if you would do the same."

I am not trying to force anything on you. I am trying to point out that discrimination is wrong. Plain and simple. Wrong. That's my view, you don't share it, I don't care. But if you think discrimination of any kind is acceptable, then you're a fool. And I wonder how you would feel, if, say, you walked into a restaurant and the owner came up to you and said, 'Oh, we don't serve straight people....or Christians.....or white people.....or.....'

"I will always choose not to speak of my lifestyle choices in comparison with yours. I don't feel the need to share."

Let me make this perfectly clear: Being gay is not my lifestyle, any more than being white is my lifestyle, or being six-foot-two is my lifestyle. It is neither a choice, nor a lifestyle, It's an orientation, it's a part of me, it's a piece of who I am. Learn that, and you might begin to understand.

"I will simply move through life with ease by choosing to avoid the negative aspects. Life is too short not to be happy and I choose to be happy by avoiding difficulties like these. You may see yourselves as heroic for taking a stand but you are simply bullying those around you into agreeing with your views. You want to force them to do something that they find offensive. Sounds like bullying to me."

I don't want to force anyone to do something they find offensive, I want to force people to stop discrimination against the LGBT community in their Open To The Public businesses. That isn't bullying; that's fighting bullying. Like I said, you don't like gay folks, I couldn't care less, because we've been here since time began, and we're not going anywhere. I just want people to stop denigrating us, bullying us, discriminating against us, firing us, evicting us, and killing us, because we're gay.

If that sounds wrong to you, then there is no hope for you.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post UPDATED: Avoid The Beall Mansion and The TimberCreek Inn, They Don't Like The Gays :"Why would you want to force someone to do something they don't want to. Even if you win, would you really want to have your civil union in a place that doesn't want you. Do you think they are all of a sudden going to slap smiles on their faces and bend over backwards to accomodate you? Twisting someone's arm to get what you want benefits you how exactly??"

Again, same Anonymous? I don't know. Different Anonymous, I don't care. I simply want people to stop discriminating against any group of people, based on color, gender, orientation age religion, ethnicity; language, height, weight, hair color. Discrimination is wrong, and if we don't stand up against it, if you don't stand up against it, who's gonna fight for you when a Beall Mansion says 'No Anonymous Allowed'? 

"I would imagine that on such a special occasion you would want to be surrounded by your loved ones and at a venue where those hosting your union actually support you and your union. If these individuals don't believe deep down in their hearts that what you are doing is okay than why would you want to force them to do it."

Oh, believe me, if I found a place that discriminated against me for any reason, i would not do business with them, but I would also make it known that they are a business that discriminates so others won't use them either.

Letting discrimination stand, and doing nothing about it, is like letting a wound fester. It becomes far worse than you ever imagined. It needs to be stopped, no matter who is doing the discrimination and to whom they are discriminating.

"It is a matter of your anger and hurt feelings and what they truly believe in their hearts. It is engrained [sic] in them.
How do your hurt feelings and anger trump what they feel and believe with all their hearts? Where do your rights end and their rights begin?"

As I have said, over and over again, on this blog, and in my life, if you don't like gay people, good for you. And too bad for you, because you're excluding a great many great people from your lives. But if you choose to operate a public business based on denying services to anyone because of any reason, like I have mentioned over and over again in this post, then you will find me standing up against you.

Say it with me: Discrimination Of Any Kind Is Wrong.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post UPDATED: Avoid The Beall Mansion and The TimberCreek Inn, They Don't Like The Gays :"I am also one of those people who will never see your lifestyle as normal regardless of how you try to present it. Granted, I will never be rude or confrontational but I will always choose to avoid you as is my right. I am not discriminating, I simply find your lifestyle offensive just as you may find my straight lifestyle offensive and that is okay with me."

Okay, Anonymous, if that's your real name and if you are the same Anonymous who posted these things on the same day, one after another, and yet cannot be bothered to give your name, let's try this again:

Gay is not a lifestyle. Straight is not a lifestyle. A lifestyle, by definition, is the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group. Those things have nothing to do with being gay or straight. My morals are no different that a lotta straight folks, my economic level is no different than a lotta straight folks. My tastes, however, far exceed those of straight folks because I'm fabulous! But that's just me. And that was a joke, in case you missed it.

My habits are as different from other gay folks as they are from straight folks, and similar to some gay folks as they are to some straight folks.

It's a LIFE, not a lifeSTYLE, and until you learn that, you'll always be wrong.

"You and I will always live lives that are parallel and with any luck we will never cross paths but if we should than I imagine that we would treat each other with respect. This may anger you but I would hope it wouldn't, it just is what it is."

Such a shame that you don't want to know gay people. I, on the other hand, welcome meeting all kinds of people and learning about all kinds of people, and being open to all kinds of people. If living in self-enforced seclusion, wearing blinders so as not to see gay people, suits you, well, then, to each his own. I guess. Sounds like a sad life to me.

As I have said repeatedly, you don't have to like me because I'm gay [your loss by the way] but you cannot discriminate against me for being gay, just as I could not, and I would not, discriminate against you for being straight.

I mean, since you chose being straight. =)

"There are many who feel just like me even though we really don't make it known unless we have to. If you are happy than that is great since we really bear no ill will toward you. We simply wish to continue to live our lives in a parallel manner with respect to yours."

I love how you say you bear no ill will toward the LGBT community and yet you don't want to know us, don't know us--even though you do, and just don't see it. Living parallel lives, without meeting people with different orientations is akin to living a life without knowing people of color, or different religions, different ages, different genders. Different is good, but I guess you don't see that.

"You call us bigots, all the while failing to understand that our belief that what you're doing is not natural is as encoded in us as being gay is to you. We can no more change our beliefs than you can your sexual preferences."

Again? 'Preference'? Really?

I prefer Chinese food over Italian food. I prefer Diana Ross over Beyonce. Sexual identity and orientation is not a preference, not a choice. Join us, here, in the 21st century.

"Do not ask us to change and we will not ask you to change. Lives your lives and let us live ours. We can all live peacefully if we can respect each others views and beliefs. This post was written in a very peaceful and calm manner. There is no anger here."

And let me finish by saying, I, and the LGBT community have never once asked the so-called straight community to change their minds about being gay. You don't understand it, you find it icky, it isn't to your liking, bully for you.

We've always and only asked to not be discriminated against.

To not be beaten and murdered for being gay.

To not be denied a job or housing for being gay.

To not be bullied and taunted for being gay.

To not be denied services by a public business for being gay.

If you wish to live in seclusion, away from anyone who is different than you, than please do so; I, however choose to live openly among all people, and learn from all people, and respect all peoples and demand respect from all people.

Gay and straight. Black and White and all colors. Jew, Catholic, Christian, Muslim ,Atheist, Agnostic. Young, Old,. Male. Female. Tall, short, thin, fat, balding, freckled, smart, not so smart, mentally challenged, physically challenged.

All. People.